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Public speaking has become part of my journey and in this episode, Nate Woodbury will be joined by Michelle McCullough as she shares her story and what the benefits of public speaking has been. Tune in to learn what public speaking is like in the shoes of the experts.
Alright. So there are a lot of videos about public speaking and how to do it or how to improve in it. But what benefit is there in public speaking? I mean why do we do it in the first place? So, that’s what we’re talking about today. We’ve got Michelle McCullough here. This one’s going to be awesome. Alright. I’m excited to be here and have you here Michelle. I know Michelle for many years. We’ve become good friends and she’s currently our chapter president for the National Speakers Association. So, I thought this was… This would be a good person having here for this talk. 1, because of that but also because you obviously have been doing public speaking for a long time. Well, let’s start with a fun question. Like, first of all, just why do you like public speaking? Well, I started my public speaking career, if you will. I guess my journey back in high school where I was a high school debater. So, I got to compete competitively in high school and that actually got me my college education becuase I got a scholarship to go to college to debate and to talk. And I think that one of the things that I really like about professional public speaking is the ability to use your gifts, your talents, your abilities, your experiences and also words to help bring about enormous change. And in the world that we live in where you can do so many things digitally and this is fantastic. But having the opportunity to connect and interact with each other through as such a simple form of communication is really fulfilling. -That is awesome because the the word that comes to my mind that I think you guys hear a lot on this channel its influence. -Right. -So basically, public speaking is a great tool for influence. -Absolutely. -I didn’t know that, I didn’t know that that you got a scholarship because of speaking. -Yeah. -It was really cool. -Yeah, my elementary school teacher is called, told my mom I was a chatterbox. But if I didn’t shut up, I wasn’t not going to amount to anything. And now I get to say, “The interning or I get paid to speak.” -Alright. So, let’s bring this into business and I know that both of us use public speaking to market business. How do you do that? -Well, I think initially, I started professionally speaking by marketing. I didn’t get into it to be a keynote speaker which I do now. But I would go to events, I would speak for free hope that I would get leads for my business. And also hope that I would get consulting clients and also have opportunities to sell from the stage.
And so, in the beginning, it was a revenue stream that I used for marketing and for income. Differently than I use it now. But I think it was a great way for me to professionally get into that space. -I mean, I found the same and I’m new in the speaking space but I did have the opportunity to speak a couple weeks ago at a YouTube event. A lot of people there that I’ve always gone and I’ve networked with but just having the opportunity to be on stage. I had a swarm of people around me for like a half-hour afterwards with all these questions and it’s like, I was been there the whole time. -Right. -Now that they had me on stage, it was… It was a great, yeah. It really helped let people know and show people my expertise and anyway, position me well. -Well I think that especially in your case and in any experts case. If they’re not doing speaking as part of what they do, they’re missing out an opportunity for that second level expertise. So whether you put on your own events or whether you go to other people’s events, I think there’s perceived value or perceived foundational expertise that’s there that can be really good for the audience. And also helps you connect with… Connect with your target market. -Now, that brings up another point. So, as you’re aware years ago, I used to do like speaker video events. Where I would put on mock events, rent stages and have my clients take the stage and I would film them as if they were giving a public speech, right? Even clients that didn’t do public speaking but they did coaching. They love to come to these events because then they would make a promo video promoting themselves as a coach. But showing themselves speaking on stage, it gave them an image of credibility and authority that I only worked with clients that had credibility and had you know, that we’re reputable and so that makes a lot of sense. That obviously speaking from the stage. Especially if you get good at it, there’s a lot of… A lot of impact that can have on your brand. -For sure. And one of the other things I will add to that is one of the biggest parts of marketing and where I think marketing and speaking kind of meld together really powerfully, is that nobody wants to be a guinea pig. And nobody wants to buy your product or buy your service. Be feeling like they’re the very first time or that they’re at the beginning skate stages of your business. And so often, speaking on a stage can provide that second level endorsement from someone else that says “Oh, they’re legitimate, they’ve been in business for a while.” And again, like you said, you still need to be good at speaking but it can be a really important part of how people perceive you and the value in your business as well. -When you are saying that, I actually thought you’re going a slightly different direction but I think it also applies that when you’re speaking on stage, people that may have seen you in one format, now they’re seeing you live and it’s just a whole another way to… Which life is always better. -Always. -So there’s more connection. There’s, there’s, you know, connection with with the room and just a different experience. And so, it allows people to connect with you more and kind of make that next step. -Mm-hmm. -Alright. So as I’m seeing you over the last several years make some transitions. I know that initially… -And you mentioned this monetization came from speaking from the stage and then getting leads that went into your your business then. And now you are getting paid to keynote now. Well let’s talk about kind of both those than anything in between. What about, how did it start and what are you doing now? -So, initially it did start from speak to sell events where they wouldn’t pay me to speak. I guess in a couple of cases they did pay me to speak and I was able to sell as well. And the difference is, is are you getting the money on the front end are you getting money on the back end. And so at speak to sell events, I did everything based off of my conversion rates and I would know after I’d done a handful to a dozen how what percentage of the room I could convert. And so, I would offer products and services based of that conversion rate. And so I could go into an event with 200 people or 300 people or even 30 people and kind of know what I was going to make based off of the products and services that I offered. Well, in time, as much as I liked that, it became harder and harder to plan for physical products or even to find ways to make digital products feel tangible for people to want to buy. And so I shifted my business into the keynote world where I get paid on the front end and I don’t make a big sell on the back end which is really hard for me now because I can go into a room and think, “Oh my gosh, if I could sell something I could make so much more money.” But the benefit of that is also that it provides an opportunity for you really to be the hero of the company. And so, I may not be promoting myself but I’m getting paid on the front end to promote the business, promote the company and go in and either help employees or partners or other business owners find that value there. And so now, with the keynoting space, that has really been valuable piece of my business. I still do both depending on the instance. But I’m doing more keynoting now than speak to Sullivan’s. But anyone can start in either place. -So, let’s… Maybe a go specific question on each type. If you’re speaking to sell, is your… Is your presentation kind of a whole sales presentation that you’re leading people through? Or is it more come… Because I’ve seen both. -Sure. -Is it more common that you’ll just give value, value, value. And then give them an offer at the end. -So, I tend to go to the ladder. I have been to events where I have felt like I was being sold the whole time and not getting any content. And one of the things that I think helped me was that I was taught very early on provide value then ask for the sale. And so, at any event that I go to, I will offer 3 or 4 points. I will make sure it’s very content rich and I think that makes the conversion rate go up. So, that from the very beginning, people aren’t sitting down expecting a sales pitch and not engaging. They’re expecting content. And then when the sales pitch comes, they think, “Oh, I really liked what she offered here. I think that what she’s going to offer here is going to be valuable.” And so, I always let lend to the rule where it’s about 15% of your presentations. If you’re speaking first 60 minutes. It’s only going to be like 6 to 12 minutes of your presentation on a sales pitch. And the rest of it is providing specific value. I might seed it carefully throughout the presentation. But I’m not spending the whole time selling.
-So, I have a follow-up question that I don’t know the answer for I have a guess. -Okay. -But I’ve seen events where they’re more like joint events where if you were to come in your to speak, have something to sell, you’d give 50% of your earnings to the person who put on the event. Have you done those type of events or do you mostly do where you just keep on percent of the Commission because you’re giving so much value? -So, I do both. It depends on the organization. I have never done up to 50%. And part of that is because I have the offerings that I offer make it really hard to offer that type of Commission level. And so, I’ve only gone as high as 30 even when people have asked for 50. -More hands on? -They’re more hands-on versus digital. So, depending… The way that I might I focused and shifted my business, I really want people to get value and I was selling products for so long that people weren’t using. So now, I offer services or other live events. And so then it’s harder to give that much of a cost back to the organizer. But in some cases, you know, if you come in as a value-add individual and you’re providing specific content or if you promote in advance of the event, there are some organizers that won’t require a commission on the backend. And… But either works. I’m happy to do that. In my way, in my opinion, if somebody else is willing to fill the room, I’m happy to give them what I would spend in marketing. So, I always consider it that way in terms of commissions back. -Have you ever paid to speak at someone’s event because you knew you’d make more money from it? -I’ll tell you one time, I have been asked to do that hundreds of times. In my experience, those have never converted the way that I would like them to convert based on what you have to put in. One time, I offered to trade an amount. Which was, it was a 5 figure amount I’m not going to lie. It was a 5 figure amount they wanted for me to be a keynote on their stage. And I had told them honestly, that I’d never paid to speak before. And because I get paid to speak as a keynoter. I can often express that and use that as part of the negotiation process. But in this particular case, I offered to provide 5 figures in promotional consideration through my social media channels, podcasts, video series, other things that I did. and I’ll tell you I made less than 4 figures on that event. And so, where she had expected and had said there was going to be 1,500 people in the room there were 200. And I had planned for 1,500 people and planned for 200 people to purchase the product. And so it just didn’t turn out the way that I thought it was going to be. So super leery about that. I know in some cases it works magnificently when people guarantee a specific audience. It hasn’t been my experience. -It says something when you say you’ve gotten hundreds of offers or requests or invitations like that. But you’ve only kind of done once. So that… Anyway. That makes… That makes a lot of sense. -Well, I think the best part about the speaking industry is that there are multiple ways you can make money from it. And there are some people I know who only do it that way. They only pay to speak on the stage and then they get income at the back end. And so, that’s fine if that works for you. -But I think there are multiple different ways to make money and also be open to the conversation in negotiations so that you get the right deal. I’m in a place where you know, 10 years ago or even 5 years ago, I needed more speaking engagements. Now, I’m saying no to more speaking engagements than I actually take just because of timing and circumstances and being booked. And so, it makes it easier for me to have some of those negotiation conversations in a way that’s mutually beneficial. -So a question on the the keynoting side where you’re getting paid to give say a 45 minute keynote presentation. For those of you watching who are curious what what are kind of the ranges that people can make as a as a keynoter? -Well, it depends. I think there are celebrities and experts and ex-presidents that are making twenty-five to fifty thousand dollars a keynote speech. Sometimes times they’re making a hundred thousand or more. But I think that generally speaking, especially starting out. As long as you have established expertise. I’m always leery to have this conversation because there are people who are starting out in expertise and they should start at a small rate maybe 250 or even $500. But there are other people who have established expertise. But they’re just starting and speaking. In which case, I think 2,000 or 2,500 or even 3,500 is a good place to start. Assuming you can actually be at least engaging while you’re speaking. But then from that, I have just taken the role as that every year that I get a certain number of speaking engagements at that amount then I can increase it after that. And so, I’m careful there are some years where I can increase it a few times in the year and sometimes where it takes a couple years to increase it to where I want it to be. But I think that the expertise should match the increase and the experience should match the increase as a general rule. -So, a number… A nice round number is 10,000? Let’s just say the keynote is 10,000. And people can look at that and say, “Well, you’re on the stage for an hour and you’re getting paid $10,000 to speak? What?” But it’s real. -Absolutely. It’s a it’s the value that you really bring and there’s those corporations or organizations or what’s… Where… I’m looking for… Associations that really want to bring in people and it’s worth that investment for what you’re going to deliver at that event. And even in… This is… I’m familiar with that. I’ve been a part of our you know NSA chapter for for many years now. But at first, it was like just real kind of mind-boggling to me of what you can make as a speaker. Meaning, you just go out and you give you know 50 speeches in a year. You’re making five hundred thousand in a year. -Right. It’s amazing. And you know Dan Clark famed… Hall of Fame speaker. And he speaks all over. He says, you’re not paid by the hour, you’re paid by the value you bring to that hour. And so, some of those speakers that are getting paid 5 and 6 figures really have provide a fantastic value. And I have learned now my and Keynote fee increases incrementally over time. It’s not just that our. It’s the amount of days I have to spend away from my family or my home or days I have to spend away from additional work. And also the time and preparation I put into that speech. And so now I get it. But I was like you just getting started. “Oh my gosh. She makes that much? He makes that much?” But the reality is is that they’re good at what they do and it’s not just that hour. It’s all the time it goes into preparation. And also the time that they spend away. -Well, I think of the event and I’m pointing this way because that’s the way to California. That’s like, “what am I pointing at.” I think of… I’ve been I went to a couple weeks ago. I got to speak or that they asked me to speak. They did not pay me but they comped my flight, they comped my my stay and a couple other things. But one of the other keynoters, I don’t know how much they paid him. But Gary Vaynerchuk, they were able to use his face in all their marketing to promote the event. And I know… I know that there was a lot of people that came because they know he was going to be on the stage. There was another another guy as well. And so for you know, the organizer of this conference to be able to invest a big chunk of change towards one or two or three of the main keynoters to bring in a whole bunch of people, that obviously makes a lot of sense. And so… -Well and also I will add to that from the marketing standpoint. The residual that happens after the fact. So for example, doTERRA Corporation that you might be familiar with. And their direct sales, essential oil and health and wellness company. And they had Hugh Jackman come. And they didn’t announce him in advance and they didn’t use him as a marketing ploy to get people to sign up. But if you could see the social media feeds that went absolutely bonkers after the fact where you’ve got 30,000 people in the room. All who have cell phones, all who have social media accounts. And then they’re promoting that. That makes so Tara look like freaking rock stars. And it provides what we call aggregate marketing. So, it’s not just the people in the room that there are promoting to. But the people that are outside of the room within the networks of all of those people who are promoting.
And so, sometimes speakers can come in for that pre-marketing but also for that post-marketing to establish a brand value. And you know, cool factor. -There you have it. Those are the benefits of public speaking. You didn’t know them before, you definitely know them now. Be sure to subscribe and we’re going to put a link to your website at speakmichele.com. We’ll put that down below. You can trigger up. We’ll see you next time.